Ride Home Rants
Ride Home Rants
NFL Draft Breakdown: The Fab Four Edition
What really happened with Shedeur Sanders in the NFL Draft? Is Travis Hunter the next two-way superstar? And who actually makes the final call in draft rooms across the league?
The Fab Four panel dives deep into these burning questions from the 2025 NFL Draft in an unflinching, no-holds-barred discussion that reveals the complex realities behind draft day decisions. When Sanders unexpectedly fell to the fifth round, was it truly about his on-field performance at Colorado, where he went 13-11 as a starter? Or did NFL teams balk at the media circus that follows him? Our experts offer radically different perspectives – from questioning his fundamental ability to allegations of league-wide bias.
Travis Hunter's selection at #2 overall sparks passionate debate about his ceiling as both a wide receiver and cornerback. While the panel universally acknowledges his generational athletic gifts, they question whether Jacksonville can properly harness his talents and if his slight frame can withstand the punishment of playing both ways at the professional level. As one panelist boldly states, "It would be more surprising if he wasn't a Hall of Famer."
The conversation shifts to the inner workings of NFL draft rooms, exposing the power dynamics between coaches, general managers, and owners. Drawing from insider knowledge, our experts reveal how successful franchises operate versus struggling ones – "Some teams draft for clicks, we play for wins." This distinction perfectly encapsulates why certain organizations consistently draft effectively while others repeatedly miss.
Whether you're a casual fan or hardcore football analyst, this episode delivers expert insights that will change how you view NFL team-building. Subscribe now and join the conversati
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Welcome everybody to another episode of the Ride Home Rants podcast. This is Fitty filling in this week for Mike Bono, and today we bring you the 2025 NFL Draft Recap with four very special guests. We got the Fab Four here today recapping all the things about the NFL Draft, where we have the six pack of questions coming right at you for the hottest topics out there post-draft. Before we get into the show today, make sure you peep all of the sponsors from the pre-roll and the post-roll, as they're all small business owners and they're great supporters of this show. We can't do the show without them and, of course, all these wonderful guests, but make sure you peep all those sponsors of the show. So, without further ado, I'm going to have our guests introduce themselves and then they're going to tell you if they've ever ridden a horse and who is tougher Olympic heavyweight wrestlers or pro heavyweight boxers. We're going to start with Coach Garvey.
Speaker 2:All right, bill Garvey, hello everybody. Yes, I've ridden a horse horse, I think, twice in my life, a hundred years ago um, not as a, an adult. So I mean just, I guess it's a half a yes, but not as a full-grown human being. No, I have not and probably never will. Um, and then who's tougher? That's a tough one, but I think I'm going wrestler. Right, I think wrestling is its own entity. You're a different type of person. I know, getting punched square in the face is really hard, but wrestling is just, it's a different gig. Um, I just, I don't know, I go wrestler okay, all right.
Speaker 1:Uh, we're going to go with Drew.
Speaker 3:What's up guys? Drew McLaughlin here. I have not ridden a horse before, although I'd love to try it. It seems like it'd be awesome and, in regards to the question, I'm going to pro boxer. Those dudes beat the crap out of each other for 45 minutes and it's bloody and it's disgusting and it's real and I think they're tough.
Speaker 4:Okay, tony, my name's Tony and I have never ridden a horse and I have no intentions to at all. And as far as who's tougher pro boxers or pro wrestlers I will say pro wrestlers.
Speaker 1:And this is not because pro, pro heavyweight boxers or Olympic heavyweight wrestlers. I will say pro wrestlers, and this is not because pro pro heavyweight boxers or olympic heavyweight wrestlers oh, uh.
Speaker 4:I would have to say olympic wrestlers. I mean, you got one that became a pro wrestler eventually and another one that dabbled in it, so I'm still gonna go with pro wrestlers. It's not because I've watched wrestling for two years olympic wrestlers.
Speaker 1:It's not because I've watched wrestling for two years. Olympic wrestlers Alright, Chris, you're next.
Speaker 5:As Christopher Marsco here, I have had the opportunity to ride a horse before and I'm going to have to say boxers. I think it's not as physically demanding, but if you could stand in there and take the physical abuse that you take, you got to be one tough son of a gun. So I'm gonna say the boxer you know it's, it's.
Speaker 1:It's a hard thing to debate and we're not going to debate it on the nfl recap. But here's what I'm going to say. When you're a boxer, you're a heavyweight boxer. All you know is boxing, right. When you're an olympic wrestler of that caliber, an olympic heavyweight wrestler, you have to know like grappling you've probably dabbled in jiu-jitsu a little bit and probably some muay thai or something of that but also you're just super, super strong, right, you have a ton of endurance and the physical toughness of getting on that mat and getting thrown in the air and body slammed on your head, you know, can probably maybe a little more painful of getting punched in the face.
Speaker 1:Plus and I love boxing, you know I'm a big boxing fan nobody won a boxing heavyweight championship with a broken neck. Kurt angle won an olympic gold championship with a broken neck. So that's where I give the nod to that. But either way, I don't want to meet Kurt Angle in an alleyway, and I sure don't want to meet Tyson Fury in an alleyway either. So I don't. I think everybody can agree on that. So we're going to go right into the questions here. We're going to go what about the horse?
Speaker 3:Did you ride a horse? Oh?
Speaker 1:no, I I'm scared to death of horses.
Speaker 2:I'm scared to death of horses. I'm surprised you didn't on your honeymoon or something.
Speaker 1:That's what I would do no, no, absolutely not. I wouldn't ride a baby horse from here to the wall.
Speaker 2:That's a pony. That's a pony.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a baby horse, a pony? I wouldn't even ride my little pony. So, no, I think horses are horses are majestic, and I think they're pretty, but I would never get on one. I think there's just too many things that would could go wrong. Um, definitely could go wrong, but we're gonna go. Coach garvey drew tony and marsco on the answers of the questions here, so first we're gonna have a little bit of fun, though. But if you had an expansion team and you got to pick one player from this NFL draft to start your expansion team, with any player, any school, any position, who are you picking, or who would you have picked?
Speaker 2:He's the first person on the team. Yeah, first person on the team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, first person on the team.
Speaker 2:We have no other members right, nobody else.
Speaker 1:You're starting the team with this draft pick sugar. I gotta ask you first. You're the most tenured coach on the podcast I know, but this is a tough one.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm gonna stick to my guns of what? Who I thought was the best player in the draft, I'm. But this is a tough one. I'm going to stick to my guns of who I thought was the best player in the draft. I'm going to Abdul Carter. That's who I would pick.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, drew. What about you on this, if you're at the expansion team and you're picking one player to start at the team with? Who are?
Speaker 3:you picking. As that guy, I'm picking one player and he's my first player, right, yeah, then I'm going straight for culture and setting a culture of the team. And if that's the case, I'm going from that dude from LSU that the Patriots picked Camels is his last name, right, the lineman. That dude is like he came out of the womb with the football in his hand. He is all about it. He's all about the team. When he said that quote, like he's going to protect, he's going to fight and die to protect Drake May, I almost became a Patriots fan just from hearing that come out of his mouth. So I'm going with the culture guy, I'm going with the dude with the Patriots pick.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. What about you, tony? Who would?
Speaker 4:you have picked. You can never go wrong with a great two-way player and a hardworking athlete, travis Hunter. You got somebody that can play wide receiver and can play cornerback. He can do it all.
Speaker 1:Kick returner he could be the next say Devin Hester or something. Okay, okay. What about you, marsco? What are you saying on?
Speaker 5:this. I was worried about everyone stealing my answer but I guess I'll go with the chalk here. I'm taking Cam Warren. You address the quarterback, you address the leadership, you address the culture. You know, as a Browns fan, I don't mind being in the light right now as we are taking Shadur and trading back from Hunter and just the controversy that we've stirred. But I think one of the grossly under-talked about things how good Cam Ward is. I think the Titans hit a home run there, so he's a defensive minded guy and what a great quarterback to do. To you taking Cam Ward.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know, for me I would say you gotta set the culture but you gotta have a safe pick that even if they are not phenomenal, they still will be a good player and I think that's a D tackle for Michigan. Mason Graham, I think, because his ceiling is probably a pro but his floor is probably really really good. You know, and have an 8 or 10-, 12-year career and he's won a national championship. He played under an nfl coach in. Jim harbaugh played under that guy who's won a national championship. I think he's a tone setter. Um, I think he'd be a good guy to go with that. So that would just have been been my guy with that. But let's go back to coach garvey on this one coach who do you think had the best draft out of all the teams.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a good one I mean I think there were a lot, honestly I mean, but the best one I mean I mean honestly, I think the issue that I have a hard time with is the other free agent moves too right, which is still in the back of your brain, which is not the question, right, so it shouldn't really be there. So I think I'm going Cleveland. Okay, so you got a lot of value.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't disagree with that. You got a lot of value. Okay, what are you saying, drew?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think this is a really deep draft. So I think, like Coach Garvey said, I think a lot of teams improved over the weekend just by how deep this draft is. It wasn't really star-studded but there's a lot of good players in the fourth round, the fifth round, even the sixth, seventh round. But you know, I got to be biased. I do. I think the Titans really had a really good draft and I was really skeptical going into it because I know how they draft in the past and it's been horrible. It's been really bad.
Speaker 3:But I mean, you got your quarterback of the future. You got a really good D end out of UCLA. You got a top-tier safety out of Penn State. You get a really good D and out of UCLA you got a top tier safety at a Penn state. You get two really good receivers and a minor and a dude from Florida and even in your late rounds you get that running back from Michigan who is a bell cow. You got a lot of guys that could fill in some spots here with the team. That's so bad. These guys are going to get playing time almost immediately. So I really think they stuck to their board and every pick they had I was pretty excited about okay, all right.
Speaker 1:Um tony, what are you saying? Who's that team that had the best draft this year? I?
Speaker 4:I'm gonna have to say the browns had a pretty decent draft this year. You gotta need a defense to be to go with miles. Garrett, you're gonna have one of your rookie quarterbacks, so they've more than exceeded their quarterback need, and you got another running back. I believe they drafted two running backs, memory serves me right. So it looks like they're probably going to be in the stages of a rebuild or something like that, but I got to say the Browns did pretty decent.
Speaker 1:Okay, what about you, chris? Who are you saying had the best draft?
Speaker 5:You know I'd love to say the Browns and Homer it up a little more, but this is kind of sacrilegious in my family. Unfortunately I'm going to have to say the Baltimore Ravens. I thought getting Malachi Starks as late as they did, being a former number one overall recruit and very battle-tested and proven at Georgia, thought that was a tremendous pick. Mike Green fell to them in the second round for Marshall. Reportedly he had character issues but you know you put him in that Ravens culture and that's kind of exactly what they put outside on the 3-4. And then you look at somebody like Emery Jones, who they got all the way in the third round. I mean he's a great lineman that played a lot of games at LSU. So I think on those first three picks alone, I mean they, they just do what they do. When you're a good team you get to pick from the back and take whatever falls to you. Damn, they're good at scooping them up.
Speaker 1:You know, I think there's three, really probably three, teams that you can make arguments for. I would say probably number three is the, the Titans Cause they didn't get a lot of depth. So I will give you credit on that drew. I don't know if I'm real crazy about the pick of cam war trying to lead your franchise though, uh, long term um, but I thought that everybody else they've had. They got some great depth pieces that can probably help them sooner than later. Um, I think the browns would probably be number two, um, but I'm gonna say probably the giants had the best draft, and the reason is you probably got the best overall player in Abdul Carter in that aspect, but you got Jackson Dart. Now, the great thing about that is and even though we're just talking strictly about the draft there is no pressure on him to play because you're behind Winston and you're behind Russell Wilson. So, to get that type of player and let him sit, this could almost be the Chad Pennington 2.0.
Speaker 1:Now, a lot of you guys are young and Coach Garvey and I remember, though, chad Pennington coming out. You know he sat behind, like Ray Lucas and Vinny Testaverde, for a couple years, basically two years then went on, I had a really really good career. I think this can be the same thing with Jackson Dart, but then to get, like Darius Alexander, the big D tackle of the Toledo Rockets, in there in the third round. And then you've got Cam Scadabo, who can show that he's a really really good running back with what he did in the college football playoffs. Maybe a little bit of Peyton Hillis 2.0 in there as well.
Speaker 1:I think the Giants got four impact players right away that can play right away if needed. Maybe Dart if he got press into action, but really maybe three guys in that sense. So, um, you know, we'll see, though I I think it was the giants. So talking about quarterbacks. So it leads me into the next question um, did the steelers do the right thing by not drafting a quarterback early in the draft while they wait on the decision of aaron rogers? Coach Garvey, what do you think?
Speaker 2:That was going to be my comment you bringing up the Giants and having quarterbacks. If the Steelers get Rodgers or even Kirk Cousins and I know Kirk Cousins failed bad in Atlanta but he's still certainly a very capable quarterback the Steelers, I think, getting that conversation to have a heck of a draft because of what they picked up free agent-wise, but that wasn't the question. To that point I think so and I guess that's kind of a cop-out answer. But if they get Aaron Rodgers, yes, because they addressed a bunch of issues up front that they needed on defense and I think they did it with a lot of quality. The one thing I'll give them right, just, they don't fold under the pressure. They stick to their thought and their and and what their belief is, and they do it. So I say yes just because of that. Okay, they don't make them till they don't make the playoffs and have a losing record, then I'm wrong.
Speaker 1:If they do that, then Mike Tomlin gets fired and I'll be the happiest guy in the world.
Speaker 2:But I give them credit for sticking to their belief.
Speaker 1:You know what?
Speaker 2:It's hard to do.
Speaker 1:I'll talk about it, though, but I'm not in disagreement with you, Drew. What do you say? Did the Steelers do the right thing by not drafting a quarterback early to wait on Aaron Rodgers?
Speaker 3:I cannot wait to hear your response to this. I knew there would be a sealer's question here at some point. I just can't wait to hear it. Um, yeah, I, I think so as well. Like coach garvey said, they got a standard there and they got a culture and they really stick by to that culture through and through, no matter what.
Speaker 3:Um, you know one thing thing being a Titans fan, I knew how you really kind of studied this quarterback class and there really wasn't any starters other than Cam Ward in the class. I truly believe you know a lot of backups, but I don't think there's too many starters. So you know they probably sat there and thought you know, what are we really gaining by taking a Shador Sanders right now? What are we gaining by taking a Jackson Dark, dylan Gabriel? I don't think they really thought the value was really there and they didn't do it. And I also think they got to know Aaron Rodgers is coming. If they're not going to do it first off. Second off Will Howard in the sixth round. I thought he was not that great, but I didn't think he'd go in the sixth round. I thought he'd go four or five. So taking a flyer on him, you never know what's going to happen, what he can do in a good spot with good coaching. But to your point I say no. I think they did good by not taking a quarterback early.
Speaker 1:Okay, what about you, tony? What's your answer to this?
Speaker 4:I will have to say I think the sewers made the right move and all signs are pointing to aaron rogers somehow finding the signing with the steelers, somehow finding the mountain of youth and like tom brady, and making the steelers top dogs potentially. But then again, the standard has been the standard for the past few years and if the Steelers didn't go under 500, with all the drama and all the head cases on their team, I can't see them going under 500 this year. It's just the standard. It's just the standard. But they're gonna have to do something. As far as tj watt goes, because he's gonna want some big boy money soon okay, okay.
Speaker 1:What about you, chris? What do you got on this?
Speaker 5:well. As a browns fan, I'm disgusted because I I think they're a great organization and they know exactly what they're doing. So both both scenarios here if they do get Aaron Rodgers or Kirk Cousins because they did bypass a quarterback in the draft, I don't think either of them have any tread on the tire left anyway, and even though the standard is the standard and the culture is great, I think Mike Tomlin and Steeler Nation are finding out that when you don't have a quarterback, it doesn't matter how great you are, you can't go to a meaningful level in the playoffs. You can be good and compete and put out a good product, but you can't compete with the Mahomes and Allens of the world when you can't put up the points, when you don't have a lead quarterback play. So they're positioning themselves this year by not taking one of these quarterbacks which I agree with Drew.
Speaker 5:I didn't think any of them were that great after Cam Ward anyway, and I think they're setting themselves up to draft one of these guys next year. I think whether they took somebody like the Browns took Marcus Mariota I don't understand that one. Instead of doing something like that, I think they're going to go the veteran route. It's a smart move nationally. It's going to be perceived by them and I don't think they're going to be that good anyway. So I think their draft pick will be in a spot where you take a good quarterback I mean, big Ben was what? 10, 12, somewhere in there so you don't necessarily have to be in that top five slot to get one. So no, I think they were validated in what they did and you'll see the fruit of their decision next year.
Speaker 1:You know, here's what I'll say. You know, as we've seen, when guys leave the Steelers they've really, really shown their true colors Le'Veon Bell, Antonio Brown, the way george pickens behaves, juju smith schuster, the issues ben roethlisberger brought to the team during those young tomlin areas, pouncy, um, his, his issues as well. The one thing about tomlin he kept a lot of it under wraps. Now, whether that was him really just getting on his guys or the security personnel keeping all that down or whatever they had going on. They did for the most part a pretty good job. But if you don't draft Shadur Sanders, it talks about Mike. Tomlin probably found him to be uncontrollable and the organization couldn't control him. So it says something because a lot of those other guys faced serious criminal charges once they left the Steelers. So you know things were going on there. So I think Tomlin did the right thing. If he doesn't think he could have controlled him and controlled the narrative behind what Sanders brings, I think they did the right thing. I also think that Mason Rudolph did lead you to the playoffs a couple years ago at the end of the season, so I'm pretty sure he thinks he can probably win nine games with him.
Speaker 1:Personality, his dad lack of winning, only going 13-11 in two years at Colorado, or was it something else? We're going to be honest and upfront and raw with this one. So you know, Coach Garvey, you've coached a long time. You've coached NFL caliber players. You've coached quarterbacks that have went to the NFL. You've coached Division III players. You know. So you've seen it all in a long, long time of coaching. What was it with Sanders in your opinion?
Speaker 2:I think it first starts number one with his ability. I just don't think it was a top 10 ability. I think I said that on the pre-draft show I questioned whether or not he was actually good enough. I think we believed he was good enough because certain channels tell us he is right, um, and because he's a good story and because people tune in to watch. I I firmly believe that. Um again, I don't believe there's that much um to the to to his dad thing. I I don't believe that for a second.
Speaker 2:Again, I think that's 100% media driven. What I do believe that could have turned him off is the interview process. I do 100% believe that because there's been enough cases now because of social media, because we know so much and because all that information is there, that other quarterbacks go in, have bad interviews and then they still get picked and they don't work out that they have learned from their mistakes as a league. That's the only thing that I think dropped him as low as he is. I mean I still don't think. Do I think he's a first-round draft pick? I don't know. I'm saying no and I kind of believed that before the draft.
Speaker 2:But again, I'm in no place to. I didn't evaluate the guy, right, I watched him play on highlights because you're not even watching that play that much, because they're playing at 12 o'clock in the afternoon or late late at night, right, so they're not the prime time game. So for me to sit here and say the value from evaluation standpoint, I didn't evaluate the guy. What I watched, I thought he was maybe slightly above average for an NFL quarterback, right, I think he is very accurate. I think he does have a little bit of that quote unquote. Maybe it factor like he is a winner. There's no question about that. I don't think his arm strength is is nearly good enough. But again, I sometimes do believe that that can be also overrated. As long as your arm's not weak, there's a difference. But so that's what I think.
Speaker 2:I think it's one is because, again, when was the last time an NFL team really worried about morals and ethics? When, never, never. It's never really happened. We act like it does. Joe Mason got drafted. He punched a girl square in the face on film, right. I mean, the only person who truly got it. There's two people in the NFL the running back from Rutgers for what he did, yes, and a guy who took a knee, rutgers for what he did. Ray Rice, yes, and a guy who took a knee. That's it, yeah, the only two that I know of. There's other ones, but the only two mainstream, you know, high-profile people that I can remember. I could be very wrong, but that's it.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this, coach Garvey, just in your opinion and for nobody that knows the listeners and the guests on here, coach Garvey coached Ryan Fitzpatrick at Harvard. Was, in your opinion, just watching Shadur Sanders highlights and seeing firsthand Ryan Fitzpatrick is? Is Shadur Sanders sealing Ryan Fitzpatrick?
Speaker 2:um, yeah, I think he could be there, but they different players. Ryan Fitzpatrick is way more athletic than him.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Runs way better. You know, shador might have again not evaluated in the men. I mean, fitzy's arm wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible. What Fitzy was, I think, has a little bit of that it type of personality.
Speaker 1:He's a guy, he's a guy, he's a guy, okay, okay, I was just curious. You know, think, thinking of that. So, um drew, what about you? What, what's what? What is your thoughts, in all seriousness, about sanders and what happened?
Speaker 3:yeah, just um, from you know, being a football fan and being, you know, involved in it and having the Titans picking so high, the first kind of inkling I saw is when now we all knew Tennessee was saying Cam Ward, but they can still play the part and cross their T's and dot their I's and do their top 30 visits and all that, and they didn't do anything with Shador Sanders. Now they went to his pro day but they never brought him into the facility and usually if you're going to be a top five guy or a first-round guy quarterback-wise, still they'll at least bring you in and have that visit. And they never did that. So I thought that was kind of weird and everything I've read or watched since it kind of came down to the fact that what I said before is there really wasn't any starter potential in this quarterback class. There really wasn't.
Speaker 3:You had Cam Ward who was that guy, and everybody else was viewed as a backup up now, what it kind of came down to, what I've seen and think happened was you know, you bring eshador sanders in and he's the, he's the guy in the room where he brings, so he has so much with him, not baggage, but he has so much that carries with his name, he has so much that carries with himself that he's going to be the spotlight of it all as a backup quarterback.
Speaker 3:And they kind of said you don't want your backup quarterback to be the front guy, you want him to be a guy that buys into the culture, so on and so forth. And they compared to, like that, tim Tebow when he was in new England or wherever he was, like you know, he was getting the interviews and everyone kind of was had the attention on the back of quarterback, you know. So I think the teams, the teams really want to deal with that? Probably not. Would they rather take a Dylan Gabriel and have a guy just buy into what you want? Probably, but at some point someone got to take a flyer on the guy. I mean, he is talented, no doubt about it, and the Browns was that team that did it. I just think teams didn't want to deal with what came with it in the end.
Speaker 1:Sure, and to go back to your point about Tim Tebow, that was when he got traded to the jets it. It created a circus.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right.
Speaker 1:Tim Tebow was the downfall of the New York jets, not Rex Ryan, it was Tim Tebow. It was Tim Tebow because he brought the circus along with them and, and and. We haven't seen a circus quite like Tim Tebow circus until Shadur Sanders.
Speaker 3:So right now, who wants to? Who wants to deal with that? You know what I mean. Who wants that to be a the problem? And so winning games it's. When's he gonna play? Now, say, like he's with the browns. Now, who's gonna start? Joe flacco? As soon as joe flacco throws a pick, it's the place he's gonna go nuts. Put him in. Put him in. Put him now. You know, I know coaches don't listen to it. Buy into it, but at some point it's gonna become an issue I agree, and I'll give my opinion on this at the end.
Speaker 1:But, tony, we're going to go to you next. What's your opinion on this?
Speaker 4:Full disclosure. I want Shigeru Sanders to succeed in this. I really do. I'm happy that the Browns got him. But here's what I'm going to say the kid's got to start being humble. The kid's got to tone it down a little bit. You know, there's nothing wrong with the whole roly, roly roly celebration, but, like one of my good friends said on a podcast I was ironically listening to about the nfl draft earlier this morning, so this is actually perfect timing if he this roly, roly, roly roly stuff, it works if you're in college, it works if you're starting, but not when you're the face of an NFL franchise.
Speaker 4:You are being selected out of 32 different teams to potentially be the face of their franchise. Now don't get me wrong. His father was that dude baseball football. His father was that dude baseball football. His father was that dude. And I have a lot of respect for coach for, for coach prime. But he's got to stay. He's got to step back and let shadur you know shadur's got let shadur grow. I mean, he can definitely give shadur advice and stuff like that. But you can't say, oh, my son isn't gonna go to this team, my son isn't go to this team.
Speaker 4:Dion said it best. Like he said he wasn't gonna fall to a certain level because Dion was that dude who knew he wasn't because Dion was that player. It's like comparing Dale Earnhardt Sr to Dale Earnhardt Jr. Dale Sr 76 wins. Seven-time champion. Dale Earnhardt Jr was a fan favorite 29 wins. I believe people are going to hate me for missing the amount of wins he had in his career, but that's kind of like comparing the two. I want Shadur to succeed Him. Speaking at my parents' alma mater, john Marshall, up in Cleveland, speaking to the youth there, that's a great start. That really is a great start and what I'm hoping is that he definitely takes this, that he puts the work in and proves why he was worthy of being drafted. Were his stats the best? I'm gonna say no. He didn't exactly have the best record at colorado, but I will say I hope he succeeds and I don't think there's been any kind of collusion to not take him. He's just got to get better at interviews. When he showed up unprepared to an interview, that says to a potential team do we really want to take on this guy and everything that he comes and brings if he's not prepared? I mean, look at his teammate, travis hunter. Travis hunter is on the same team. He went number two in the draft. He's a guy who's a wide receiver and cornerback. He just keeps his. People will talk all kind of stuff about his girlfriend and stuff like that, but that's all beside the point. Travis Hunter is a great football player. He kept his head down and just learned to play the game.
Speaker 4:And there have been QBs that have had baggage before the Browns. Have you know? They had Jameis Winston. He had baggage. Cam Newt had baggage. Baker Mayfield had baggage. Some guy named Johnny Manziel had flea flopped. Josh Rosen first round. He's out of the league in four years. There was no, he wasn't. Did not get Josh Rosen first round. He's out of the league in four years. There was no, he wasn't did not get picked in the first round because there was some collusion to just not take him because of his dad. It's just. I don't know why people are going to go with that. If that was true, then Cam Ward wouldn't have been taken number one. That's what I gotta say about that. It wasn't collusion against him.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. What about you, chris? What are you saying on this?
Speaker 5:Now, Fetty, I don't know your opinion yet. I love everybody on this panel, but I'm going to say some things and they haven't been received well in my friend circle, so I'm just going to throw out that.
Speaker 1:Oh, here you go. We've got the controversial topics on the ride home rant. I am not a conspiracy guy whatsoever.
Speaker 5:I feel like you reap what you sow and, much like Bill stated at the beginning, I did not evaluate him. I used to in high school study hall and in college and when I didn't have a family and kids I'd break down the film and I'd have a real strong opinion on him as a player. I'm going to leave all of the player talk aside for this. I just want to look at the person Because ideally, what you're drafting here as an NFL quarterback is the face of your franchise. So, playing aside, I think we could all agree he should have been drafted somewhere. Maybe. Day one was a little lofty, really feeling my heart of hearts. Day two probably should have been somewhere in there. Really stunned, he made it to the fifth round. He has never reportedly done any drugs. He has no drinking problem. He donates his time to go talk to kids, tony mentioned. As soon as he got to Cleveland he went and did it. He's never been in trouble with the law. There's no videos of him running from police getting tackled.
Speaker 5:I hate saying this, but you know who runs the NFL and I'm not trying to make it racial, but it's 32 old white men. What don't old white men typically like Change flair. Your mouth right in checks so your butt hasn't cashed yet, right? They don't want a video crew around. They don't want his brother around shooting tape. They don't like all the bling, the dancing, his dad saying some of the things he said pre-draft. Now the bad interviews yeah, I mean a bad job interview should dock you. Like we talked about. There's some real, less than savory men that play in the NFL. It is not a choir's club of good dudes.
Speaker 5:And for me to sit here and see Tyler Shuck what the hell is Tyler Shuck one? All he's done is get hurt. But he's tall and has a big arm, so we're going to take a flyer on him. Good luck with that. That's a joke to me, and again, not the player. Maybe Tyler Shuck is more physically talented than Shadur, but you're going to tell me everything that this kid's accomplished.
Speaker 5:He's a fifth-round pick. That doesn't sit well with me If you want to talk about. He's not good enough physically. There's no elite trait. I'll sit here, get a cup of coffee. I'll get a beer. I'll listen to that. You cannot tell me that as a CEO type for your franchise, he's no more valuable than a fifth round pick. I'm yelling collusion all the way home and, to be honest with you, whether the Browns got him or not, I really think if no one traded up for him that he was going to go undrafted so the league could try to prove a point to him. So I'm happy the Browns did end up with him. As long as it wasn't the Steelers or Ravens I'd be cheering for him regardless, but I would really take some convincing to tell me otherwise. That he's worthy of a fifth-round pick and not higher. Just with his record and how flawless it is really rubs me the wrong way.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we've got four different opinions on that, so I'm going to round this out and we're going to move on to another topic here. We're going to finish with the final two and the six pack of questions. But here's my thing. You went 13-11 as a starter at Colorado. You were sacked the most in the NCAA in two seasons. You did not elevate your team to be better. Right, great quarterbacks elevate teams to be better in college and they will physically dominate when they have the physical traits. So to Coach Garvey's point that Ryan Fitzpatrick was probably more athletic, you know that's valid. Johnny Manziel more athletic, a lot of other guys more athletic. They elevated teams. They made them better.
Speaker 1:If you look at who Sanders played, though, at Colorado, outside of Oregon two years ago, they he played very, very little teams that had NFL talent. You know what his stats were against that bloodbath with the Oregon game 23 of 33, 159 yards and one touchdown, and he took 11 rushes for a negative 49 yards. They lost 42 to six. He didn't elevate people around him. I think the telltale sign of how overrated he was as a player was the beatdown against the Storm and Mormons of BYU in the bowl game, because you can't tell me you're a great player when BYU did not have anyone forecasted to be drafted until at least the fourth round and you lost 36-14 by going 16-23 for 208 yards, two touchdowns, two interceptions. If you can't succeed in the teams you're playing in college and dominate, you aren't in the Big 10, right, you're not in the SEC, so I get it. But if you can't dominate in the Big 12, how are you going to dominate in the NFL or be super successful?
Speaker 5:So yes, Chris Real quick, wanted to chime in because I forgot this. He had nobody blocking for him in his leading rusher. Both years at Colorado had 300 yards for the year. It's like asking Tim Couch to be good in Cleveland with no weapons.
Speaker 1:For sure, I'll give you that. But you can't have a Heisman winner on your team and only win 13 games in two years. I hear you on that In the Big 12, not the SEC, the Big 12.
Speaker 4:In addition, he lost to a Kansas team that had seven losses and a Nebraska team that also had seven losses.
Speaker 2:To go against that point. They were probably the worst college football team when he got there.
Speaker 3:I was going to say the same thing, sure.
Speaker 1:We'll take out. I understand what you're saying too.
Speaker 2:Evaluating film, everyone's evaluating who he's playing against as well. No question, no question about that, right.
Speaker 1:I learned this Coach I was under not Coach Garvey, but one of the other guys I was under told me this it's not how good you are, it's how good is everybody else, and everybody else. He played wasn't that good outside of Oregon and that beatdown of BYU, but we're going to kind of leave it at that. So a couple different opinions. We'll see what time says, though, about chander sanders, no doubt. So, speaking of colorado, we're going to go with this one. Coach garvey, what's travis hunter's ceiling? Is he as good as everyone says, and what do you think he's going to do in the nfl?
Speaker 2:I think he is as good as everyone says, might even be better. Um, it will be very interesting to see how many snaps a game he can play at that level. Because, again, to your point of they didn't play anybody, yes, he's playing both ways and playing so many snaps His competition was less right. So from that evaluation standpoint now he is a phenomenal, phenomenal athlete, better than his mentor, I think. Right, because his mentor is probably the best athlete that's ever lived in sport, ever. Right, bo Jackson, I guess, would be the only other one. And maybe there's some great basketball player that too, maybe Michael Jordan's close, but not really, because he couldn't play baseball like Dion, or Bo Jackson for that matter. So the one thing is is that he's a very slight human being, but he does never take a shot square ever, ever in his life. I don't think he has. Um, so, man, I do think his ceiling is probably higher than what we think it is okay he's a dynamic, dynamic person.
Speaker 1:Okay, Drew. What do you think Travis Hunter's ceiling is in the NFL?
Speaker 3:I think he is. I am amazed by what he does on a consistent basis offensively and defensively. Now we had this argument yesterday in our staff locker room what's easier? Would you rather him be an offensive guy and minor in defense or a defensive guy and minor in offense? And we talked, we argued about that for an hour and people are throwing out. You know it's easier to. You know it's harder to learn an offense and where to go and where to line up and what route you're running on this formation and this play and on defense. Hey, go man up back at and man them up and that's it.
Speaker 3:And then the other argument was defense is so much hard Coach Marsco can back me up on this defense it's so much harder to know scheme and fit and you know no calls and coverages and where you're rolling, and all that in an offense. You can say hey, just go run a seven seven route, go run a flag, go run a nine. So we thought we we probably there for an hour is arguing about it. But in the end of it all, if you're having the topic about him doing both, he got to be an extraordinary athlete and an extraordinary player and I am really, really, really, really upset that Jacksonville took him because I got to see him twice a year now on both sides of the ball when he plays the Titans. So I'm not happy about that. But you know he's a relevant player. He's going to bring a lot of buzz to Jacksonville and even though I'm a Titan spin, I can't really wait to watch what they do and what he does, because it hasn't been seen in a long time okay, tony, what?
Speaker 1:what are your thoughts on travis hunter in the nfl you?
Speaker 4:want you get a once in a lifetime player like that that can succeed not only on offense and defense. And the thing is, as I stated earlier, he's had some stuff that has surrounded him. People have been talking all kind of mess about his girlfriend and stuff, his soon to be wife and stuff like that, which he he's blocked out all that noise, which is good for him to block out all that noise and just focus on playing the sport he loves. And one of my good buddies up in wayne county he actually got a chance to take photos of their wedding or of their take their engagement photos, which is which is really awesome.
Speaker 4:I was hoping that travis would end up coming with cleveland, but you know he's got he's with jacksonville now. I'll say, as long as he just keeps his head down, stays focused, doesn't get distracted and doesn't get injured, he can have a really solid career. He's just got to just stay healthy and just keep his mind straight and surround himself with the right people, because if you don't surround yourself with the right people, it doesn't matter how talented you are, you can crash out in a matter of three to four years and you'll be looked at as one of the biggest nfl draft busts of all time, which I hope that travis hunter does not become okay, okay, uh.
Speaker 1:What about you, chris? What do you say on this?
Speaker 5:I mean tony. Tony made great points. I want to mention them before I forget them. If he keeps the right people around him and keeps a level head and, god willing, he could stay injury free. I think it would be more surprising if he wasn't a Hall of Famer. The body control he has to be able to go high point the ball to be able to catch it falling down. His hand strength, his ability to snap off defenders, his ability to you know on defense how many corners go up. And high point a football I mean as a defensive-minded guy myself. I mean normally you put your guys that can't catch a corner because they can still run and cover. This guy could actually go get the ball and turn it over for you.
Speaker 5:And I find it really funny that no one chooses to acknowledge not you guys, just in general that he played in Colorado and went both ways. Where is there a harder place to train, be an athlete, try to breathe than Colorado? He's doing all those plays in Colorado, my goodness. Now I do think he needs to bulk up a little bit because the league does wear on you. It's a league of giants. But if he could do all those snaps up in the elements in Colorado and you're on the outside like that. You're not banging every play like alignment, it's a lot of seven-on-seven type stuff. You're not necessarily in the run fit a bunch as a corner. I don't see why he can't play both ways.
Speaker 5:Eight, ten years in the league, I think as you gave him a rough, obviously he's got to slam one way and kind of what Coach McLaughlin mentioned. I think it would be harder for him to do defense because, like offense, you could screw up the route. The scramble drill there's always a way to get you the ball jets defense, you roll the wrong way at six and then three people look like a jackass. So I think it it's going to be harder for him to do defense but if everything falls in line he could stay healthy. I think he's a hall of famer okay.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm going to throw out a couple different things here. So coach garvey talked about, um, you know some of the more athletic people of all time. So, um, you may. People may laugh on this, people may not know, but don't forget john elway was a second round draft pick in major league baseball for the new york yankees and was a first round nfl draft pick, uh, during his time, and we all know what john elway did. So when we're talking about most athletic professional sports people ever don't forget John Elway and brilliant went to Stanford. So when you come from Stanford, you're built a certain type of way because the academics come first there and that guy was a two-sport standout at Stanford. So remember that when we're talking about super athletic people. So just throwing that out there for our older fans on the podcast.
Speaker 1:The second thing I'm going to throw out is when you're thinking about Travis Hunter, though think he's on a very, very bad team. He went second overall. When you go second overall, you're not going to usually a good team, so where is he going to have more of an impact? Corner ain't winning you football games when you're a bad team. Wide receiver with the quarterback they have maybe will help you win games. If he's playing corner, he ain't helping you win games. You're going to be four and 13. So what's more important Winning games, playing wide receiver and maybe dabbling in corner, or playing corner and losing games because you have no offense? So that's the way you have to figure it out too. Um, I would say you know he never really went against elite receivers in college outside of maybe oregon with the offense they had there. Now I don't know his stats stats against oregon, but to lose 42 to 6, I'm probably sure your stats weren't very good, especially if sand Sanders did not throw very much that game. So that's kind of a tell of the tape on that. He had a little bit more success against the BYU game offensively, maybe defensively too. So I think you've got to say too it's a tell of the tape of who you're playing.
Speaker 1:I think he can be very, very good. Is he going to play both ways for his whole career? Probably not, because guys like Chris Gamble tried that, played at Ohio State against much higher competition. Chris Gamble couldn't hold up in the NFL doing that built the same way, and probably one of the last guys to do it out of necessity was Troy Brown during the Patriots playoff runs way, way back in the day, and Troy Brown was a receiver first and a DB second. So time will tell.
Speaker 1:I think he'll be good on both sides of the ball, but I think if he wants to be great, he needs to be a wide receiver for the Jaguars. Nobody pays attention to corners on four and 13 teams. So one of the last things I'm going to ask in your honest opinions, in your honest opinions and Tony's in the media and Drew coaches and Chris has been at YSU as a student coach and has seen some NFL guys around and, of course, coach Garvey is Coach Garvey and has seen guys come and go with the NFL in college all around. Who's really pulling the trigger on the draft for NFL players when you're with a team? Is it the GM, is it the owner or is it the coach who's really drafting these guys and whose word really matters?
Speaker 2:Coach Garvey, we're going to go with you first oh, I just I think it's a team organization thing. Honestly, I know again, it's probably not a very good answer. It's probably not answering the question. I think every, every single organization is different, um with where the input comes from, and then who makes the final decision? Because I don't. Did you say the owner too? I mean, yeah, right. I mean, when it comes down to it, I wonder, like everyone said, again, it's something media driven. Did Cleveland take? You got all the social media posts of the GM and the head coach just like kind of slowly cheering when they picked Shador and didn't look real happy about it? I didn't know if that was real, I have no idea, but it certainly doesn't look good.
Speaker 2:Right. So they're saying the owner did it right. I don't know, I I. I think it depends on the organization. I think organizations have moved from the Bill Belichick era of I'm in charge, I do everything to build Parcells series, all those. I think those days are gone. I think there's um series, all those, I think those days are gone. I think there's um. There's too much liability in the whole thing. You know what I mean, um. But but when it comes down to it, if it's a good organization, everybody with the owner and owners with the less, say because you hired people to do a job, you would hope.
Speaker 1:But you're also in charge. Okay, Drew. What do you think? Who do you think truly is making these decisions for NFL teams?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a good question and actually I'm a big Mike Braybill fan, being a Titans guy and an Ohio State guy, and last year when he was with the Browns he kind of did a little media tour and did some podcasts here and there, cause he had the time to do it and he did. He was with a PFT and those guys and they almost asked a very similar question that you asked like when you're in those draft rooms, you know what's going on and he gave a pretty honest answer and he said essentially you have an idea of who you want. Everybody does and you always have to have the owner sign off on it. You can want the scouts, the head coach, all the coaches, the GM to be on the same page, but if the owner doesn't sign off on it, you might be looking at different directions.
Speaker 3:So it seems like this is just the Titans. They can be different. That's one. The Titans, they can be different. You know that's one of 32 be different anywhere else. But it seemed like there you know, not, you know it's Amy Armstrong it didn't seem like she had any input and said you know, put her fist down, but she had to be okay with what they did, and you know that. I think that's what it comes down to, and you know these owners are putting the money up, so they probably want to have their final sign off on it, so it seems like that's the case okay, you know, it made me think of this and and I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw this out, but it makes me think of, like, this is nfl franchise one.
Speaker 1:This is superior nfl franchise two. A lot of it goes back to what Dan Lanning said when they played Colorado. They play for clicks, we play for wins, and there's NFL franchises that draft for clicks and there's NFL organizations that draft for wins.
Speaker 1:Absolutely when you're worried about clicks and media headlines, jets, browns, all the dumpster organizations in the nfl. You don't care. That's all you care about media, media, media, media. When you make behind the door picks, you know that are quiet ravens, you know steelers, falcons, teams like that. Those are teams that care about wins and I think that is all dependent on the owner. But I think what Dan Lanning said people play for clicks and people play for wins it is valid with NFL owners too. But, tony, what would you say? Who's making the draft picks?
Speaker 4:I would have to say the organization, the GM, talks to the owner and says, hey, we want to see what this guy's like, because you definitely, in addition to talent, in a way you definitely have to take character into consideration, because this player that you're going to draft is going to be the potential face of your franchise. Not that the NFL is full of choir boys, but you want to get somebody who at least comes the closest to a choir boy because they're going to be there for at least four, four years minimum, with the option to pick up a fifth year if they do good enough. So I would have to say, the GM talks to the owner and then you definitely get the coach's input and then you just go from there.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, you know, I think the last choir boy the NFL had was probably Roger Stolbach, who was probably the most clean cut person to ever come into the NFL Right out of the Navy. You know, clean-shaven, buzz-cut, just straight military all the time, and that was a long, long time ago. People may not even know who Roger Stolbach is anymore. So, coach Garvey and I do, though, because we're old. But you know another thing, and before Chris answers this, and going back to Coach Garvey's point, you know the famous Bill Parcells, top 10 coach of all time, better than Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 1:I will argue that to the day I die. Bill Parcells did say, though he goes, if they want me to cook in the kitchen, they got to let me at least buy groceries, and what he meant was if you want me to be successful on the field, you, if you want me to be successful on the field, you've got to let me get my own players. So just, you know saying of what Bill Parcells used to say, though, too. So, chris, round us out on this to end this show.
Speaker 5:I think the truth lies somewhere in between. Everything I mean, I kind of I think we all said it it's an organizational thing. It's like flavors of ice cream. Ice cream is great. I think we could all agree on that. There's a variety of different ways for it to be great.
Speaker 5:So I think, though, to answer the question, I think the way the most successful organizations have it set up is that the GM is hired to pick the players. He should work in footstep and lockstep with the coach. He should present before the pick hey, we're down to these one or two guys, what's your preference? But at the end of the pick, hey, we're down to these one or two guys, what's your preference? But at the end of the day, it's the GM's final call. And you know, I kind of look at the owner and all this is the grandparents sitting in the rocking chair giving them the five bucks to go get the ice cream. As long as there ain't no major red flag and the coach and the GM are on board with it, they're a yes man. Like you said, unless it's a bad organization, we're worried about clicks, and then they go rogue and go out on the road. You don't see that from a good organization, so I don't know much like a school runs or anything else. You assign people to their role.
Speaker 1:They should communicate, but at the end of the day, I think it should fall on the GM, Okay, okay. Well, everybody, thank you so much for for coming on today. You know, uh, coach Garvey and coach Marsco and coach McLaughlin and Tony, you know, speaking from the media side of things, uh, this was really, really great Our, our serious six pack of questions. I'm packing the NFL draft here with the fab four on this week's episode of the Ride Home Rants podcast.
Speaker 1:To all of our old listeners and new listeners, thank you so much for tuning in to check this out and, as always, if you enjoyed the show, be a friend and tell a friend all about it, because if you liked it and they didn't like it, or you like it and they don't, whatever it may be, just keep telling people about it. We love having fun here and we love exploring new subjects all the time here. So definitely check us out this summer as we get past this show, with some more roundtables that we're going to do. Also, check us out with some of our new guests that we're going to be having on here. So, guys, thank you so much again on behalf of Ride Home Rants and me and Mike for being on today, and we were going to see everybody on the next episode next week.
